tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post1129203248767530658..comments2024-02-16T05:17:21.690-05:00Comments on No Moods, Ads or Cutesy Fucking Icons (Reloaded).: Consciousness, Learning, and NeurochipsPeter Wattshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06160557746794936786noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post-71753350035207334412007-05-05T10:52:00.000-04:002007-05-05T10:52:00.000-04:00ar: "Surely you remember those tool-using hominid...<B>ar</B>: "<I>Surely you remember those tool-using hominids with very small brains. So apparently there is distinction between small brains, and brains that were once large but then became small. To wit, miniaturization seems to preserve at least some functions only developed during the larger state. Perhaps ravens just bypassed all that nonsense and had the good fortune of the right selective Peter Wattshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06160557746794936786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post-11956943681153250522007-05-04T10:53:00.000-04:002007-05-04T10:53:00.000-04:00ar sed:If we have normal people whose brains are m...<B>ar</B> sed:<BR/><BR/><I>If we have normal people whose brains are mostly fluid, then perhaps brain size doesn't NEED to be so large as ours are. The problem with every part of one's brain being used to maximum capacity, though, is that you're have to accept the fact that if you get even a minor concussion, you are going to lose some important mental function.</I><BR/><BR/>Whoa. That's a very razorsmilehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17741327069258643030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post-51386766139339923912007-05-04T01:09:00.000-04:002007-05-04T01:09:00.000-04:00Not to take away from any of the mental accomplish...<I>Not to take away from any of the mental accomplishments of the corvids (which are pretty damn impressive), but the necessity for a flying creature to minimize body mass would put a pretty strict upper limit on brain size.</I><BR/><BR/>If we have normal people whose brains are mostly fluid, then perhaps brain size doesn't NEED to be so large as ours are. The problem with every part of one's ARhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09695255436104873832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post-90234875771781298102007-05-04T00:35:00.000-04:002007-05-04T00:35:00.000-04:00brett said Irene Pepperberg's work with Alex the A...brett said <BR/><BR/><I>Irene Pepperberg's work with Alex the African grey parrot suggest formidible intelligence - on crude terms, I think that "equivalent to a five year old human" has been said.</I><BR/><BR/>I've always found it fascinating and counterintuitive that the nonhuman species showing the consistently greatest language skills are the relatively small-brained birds, and *not* other Peter Wattshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06160557746794936786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post-12761731550418445362007-05-04T00:22:00.000-04:002007-05-04T00:22:00.000-04:00ar pointed out thatamong bird species, larger brai...ar pointed out that<BR/><BR/><I>among bird species, larger brains correlate with higher individual survival rates and broader range.</I><BR/><BR/>That's really interesting. Judging by the summary, they seem to have corrected for the confounds that sprang to my mind, anyway. Don't have time to read the original paper right now, but I've bookmarked the reference.Peter Wattshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06160557746794936786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post-27258576005374789332007-05-04T00:13:00.000-04:002007-05-04T00:13:00.000-04:00brett said:We need not think of gaps as flaws that...brett said:<BR/><BR/><I>We need not think of gaps as flaws that undermine the validity or worth of consciousness, but look at how well it works as a system building itself up from minimal points of data.</I><BR/><BR/>That works fine as long as the gaps evolution decides it can safely "ignore" don't change over time. But if your environment changes sufficiently, those gaps can hide monsters...Peter Wattshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06160557746794936786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post-76208822990811635042007-05-04T00:10:00.000-04:002007-05-04T00:10:00.000-04:00Hey, frax. (May I call you Frax?)In what way is i...Hey, frax. (May I call you Frax?)<BR/><BR/><I>In what way is it relevant to know how it feels to be forced to have learned? I don't think we can trust any self-report about consciousness, because it's impossible to know whether that self-report is selfishness on the homunculus' part.</I><BR/><BR/>Point taken. But I think the subjective sensation experienced when getting knowledge implants mightPeter Wattshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06160557746794936786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post-41949036805995437282007-05-03T23:50:00.000-04:002007-05-03T23:50:00.000-04:00ar asks: Second, why is your blog so incredibly na...ar asks:<BR/> <I>Second, why is your blog so incredibly narrow?</I><BR/><BR/>fraxas is right-- I could widen the column easily enough. I left it the way it was when I made the other changes because, well, it was a preselected template and I just assumed that the default width would be the best for a wide range of screen rezes. (It certainly looks okay on mine.) I can change it if enough peoplePeter Wattshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06160557746794936786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post-7787428964729319832007-05-03T20:07:00.000-04:002007-05-03T20:07:00.000-04:00Ah yes, the raven. Actually, the aforementioned a...Ah yes, the raven. Actually, the aforementioned alpine parrot, the kea, scores very highly in whatever problem-solving tests that have been tried (I can't think of any specific links offhand). It's smart, curious, versatile, playful, omnivorous... should do well, except that it's habitat is limited and it hasn't coevolved with rats and cats and while not endangered, it is listed as vulnerable.<Brett Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01545104833037581797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post-86340334511247436372007-05-03T17:47:00.000-04:002007-05-03T17:47:00.000-04:00Consider further the raven. A series of experiment...Consider further the raven. A series of experiments to test their intelligence was covered in a recent issue of Scientific American. Ravens clearly demonstrate possession of several advanced cognitive abilities, including theory of mind, advanced planning, and the attributing of knowledge and motives to particular individuals, including humans.<BR/><BR/>The article went on to contemplate why theyARhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09695255436104873832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post-7613400646511378472007-05-03T17:15:00.000-04:002007-05-03T17:15:00.000-04:00I didn't say it guv, but I did say that I liked it...I didn't say it guv, but I did say that I liked it.<BR/><BR/>I have the impression (I'm like warm wax when it comes to the latest hypothesis) that memory ill be highly significant in studies of consciousness, as is vision.<BR/><BR/>As with seeing, in remembering, the brain takes scraps and assembles a rich-seeming but often inaccurate picture. Reading in a recent issue of New Scientist (Mar 24)Brett Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01545104833037581797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post-12640273449939621692007-05-03T09:10:00.000-04:002007-05-03T09:10:00.000-04:00ar: The template our gracious host has chosen has ...ar: The template our gracious host has chosen has a fixed width for its body style. Changing that is a mere moment's CSS hackery.<BR/><BR/>And to provide another answer to your question -- In what way is it relevant to know how it feels to be forced to have learned? I don't think we can trust any self-report about consciousness, because it's impossible to know whether that self-report is Fraxashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01250589389977400643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post-72017975918727135002007-05-02T23:23:00.000-04:002007-05-02T23:23:00.000-04:00razorsmile sez: Hmm. I should clarify. What I mean...<B>razorsmile sez:</B> Hmm. <BR/><BR/>I should clarify. What I meant to type, before my hands outpaced my brain (meta-topical, no? :)) was:<BR/><BR/><I>Conscious<B>ness</B> trains the subconscious until it (i.e. consciousness) is no longer needed.</I> <BR/><BR/>Ergo, its mission statement, much like MDs and medical researchers, is to put itself out of a job.<BR/><BR/>Oddly enough, consciousness Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post-38341575471419260832007-05-02T20:59:00.000-04:002007-05-02T20:59:00.000-04:00Second, why is your blog so incredibly narrow? It ...Second, why is your blog so incredibly narrow? It uses about a third of the available space on my monitor. <A HREF="http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6281/bloguq5.jpg" REL="nofollow">Just look.</A>ARhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09695255436104873832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5740787063649889480.post-27417073741114817592007-05-02T20:18:00.000-04:002007-05-02T20:18:00.000-04:00First, to answer your question:I'm learning to pla...First, to answer your question:<BR/><BR/>I'm learning to play guitar. The "just there" sensation is something people can reproduce already with some aspects of some complex motor skills. In my particular case, I could not play chords properly, if at all. Then one day, I could. It did not feel as though I had learned something; it felt as though the task itself had become easier. Result: A clearlyARhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09695255436104873832noreply@blogger.com